Igniting the spark again with Girl Lab Changemakers

In this Episode we are talking to the lovely Nikki Giant.

The fabulous Nikki talks to us about how she is on a mission to reignite the spark in women.

Nikki Giant is an author, social entrepreneur and the founder of The Spark Movement, an organisation that aims to support the next generation to reach their potential.

Nikki hosts the Spark Sessions for Changemakers events, held on a bi-monthly basis to bring together people who want to make a difference in the world, inspiring a community of changemakers to put their purpose and passions into action.

She is the founder of The Girl Lab, a consultancy agency aimed at supporting girl-focused and gender equality nonprofits, and she is a member of the Advisory Panel for the Children's Commissioner for Wales.

Previously she was Head of Girls' Rights for global children's charity Plan International UK.

You can find Nikki at the following places:

Instagram: Nikki Giant (Watson) (@nikkigiant) • Instagram photos and videos

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LightaSpark/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkigiant/

You can keep up to date with the host Helen here:

https://linktr.ee/Helencorsicadmore

Liked this episode? Remember to subscribe and leave a review! Or if you want to be a guest then contact me at hello@helencorsicadmore.com

Thank you,

Hels x

Transcript

Speaker: 00:00:00

Hello and welcome to this

episode of Fabulous and Female.

: 00:00:04

Today I am delighted to welcome the

very, very smiley, Nikki Giants.

: 00:00:11

Uh, welcome Nikki to Fabulous and Female.

: 00:00:15

Thank you.

: 00:00:15

Thanks so much.

: 00:00:17

Nikki is an author, a social entrepreneur,

and the founder of the Spark movement,

: 00:00:23

an organization that aims to support the

next generation to reach their potential.

: 00:00:28

Nikki hosts the Spark Sessions

for Changemakers events.

: 00:00:33

These are held on a bi monthly basis

to bring together people who really

: 00:00:36

want to make a difference to the world,

inspiring a community of changemakers.

: 00:00:41

to put their purpose

and passion into action.

: 00:00:45

She is also the founder of the Girl

Lab, a consultancy agency aimed at

: 00:00:50

supporting girl focused and gender

equality non profits, and she is the

: 00:00:55

member of, uh, the advisory panel for

the Children's Commissioner for Wales.

: 00:01:00

Previously, she was the Head of

Girls Rights for Global Children's

: 00:01:03

Charity Plan International UK.

: 00:01:09

Amazing.

: 00:01:10

Thank you, Nikki, for joining me today.

: 00:01:13

Um, and also, Nikki is a fellow

Welshie, so I do just like to big up the

: 00:01:20

Welsh, uh, people I have on the show.

: 00:01:24

Very important.

: 00:01:25

It is very important, yes.

: 00:01:27

Um, so Nicky, that was a very structured,

you know, professional, uh, intro to you.

: 00:01:33

Um, I'd love to know just a

little bit more about Nicky Giants

: 00:01:37

on a personal level as well.

: 00:01:39

So over to you.

: 00:01:41

Great.

: 00:01:41

I mean, just hearing that

makes me feel a bit tired.

: 00:01:43

No wonder I feel so exhausted.

: 00:01:45

It feels like a lot.

: 00:01:47

Um, so yeah, thank you

so much for having me.

: 00:01:50

It's absolutely an honor to be here.

: 00:01:52

Um, so I guess on a personal

level, I live in South Wales, same

: 00:01:56

as you, um, and a little town by

the sea, just outside of Cardiff.

: 00:02:00

Um, I'm born and bred in Wales,

but I've lived in a few different

: 00:02:04

places, including, um, stint in

America and in London as well, when

: 00:02:09

I was working for Plan International.

: 00:02:11

Um, but really glad to be back in Wales.

: 00:02:14

There's definitely a

certain energy in Wales.

: 00:02:16

And I feel like people, particularly

people in business and It's

: 00:02:19

social enterprise, really want

to support each other, which I

: 00:02:21

think is really important to me.

: 00:02:23

Definitely.

: 00:02:24

Definitely.

: 00:02:25

Amazing.

: 00:02:26

So that's still Nikki,

the, the business person.

: 00:02:30

I love to talk to my guests about Nikki,

the, the, the non business person.

: 00:02:35

So I'm actually going

to change this up a bit.

: 00:02:38

I'm going to do a bit

of quick fire question.

: 00:02:39

I've done this before.

: 00:02:40

Why not?

: 00:02:40

It's my podcast, right?

: 00:02:41

So, right.

: 00:02:41

So I'm going to do a quick fire question.

: 00:02:42

So I'm going to do a quick fire question.

: 00:02:43

Why not?

: 00:02:43

So I'm going to do a quick fire question.

: 00:02:44

It's my podcast, right?

: 00:02:46

Salt and vinegar or cheese and onion?

: 00:02:49

Definitely salt and vinegar.

: 00:02:50

That's not even a question.

: 00:02:51

Yes.

: 00:02:52

Coffee or tea?

: 00:02:54

Coffee all day.

: 00:02:55

All day.

: 00:02:56

Black strong.

: 00:02:56

Keep it coming.

: 00:02:57

Ooh, black strong.

: 00:02:58

Okay.

: 00:02:59

Dark or milk?

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Definitely dark.

: 00:03:03

Yes, I knew I liked you.

: 00:03:04

I knew I liked you.

: 00:03:06

Okay, right.

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Let's do this one.

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Um, roses or tulips?

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I'm more of a tulip kind of girl.

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Eh, I'll take, but I'll take whatever.

: 00:03:16

Anything I can get.

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Just showing Nikki for

those who aren't listening.

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Just got a bunch of tulips on my desk.

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Um, okay, and sunshine or snow?

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Definitely sunshine.

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I love the spring, summer.

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I hate the winter.

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And this rain is driving me nuts.

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Driving me insane.

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I need a holiday somewhere.

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Oh my goodness.

: 00:03:32

I was just talking to somebody

before I came on about a friend

: 00:03:36

of mine is, um, who's got twins,

who is on holiday at the moment.

: 00:03:41

And I saw a lovely picture and she just

looked like she was in the Caribbean.

: 00:03:44

And I used to look out the window

and went, it's still raining here.

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It's still raining here.

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It's the third month straight.

: 00:03:52

It is.

: 00:03:54

Right.

: 00:03:55

There we go.

: 00:03:55

So a little bit more about get to

know you, which is what I love.

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Right.

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Let's go back to Um, the spark movements.

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So, let's chat a little bit about this.

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We got introduced by, um, a mutual

connection, very randomly actually.

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The lovely, uh, lovely Dan sent me a

message saying, you need to talk to Nikki.

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Um, because I told her about you

and your podcast and all of that.

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Anyway, we had a bit of a chat and

I was like, yeah, actually, Nikki

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is right on my radar for somebody

that I want to come on here.

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So yeah, talk to me

about the Spark Movement.

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What, what is it exactly?

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So at the moment, I guess I

would call it my passion project.

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And I'm really trying to keep it like

that because sometimes when you put all

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your attention on something, it Becomes a

big focus and you feel like you've got to

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monetize it and make it your whole life.

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And so I'm in that funny space right

now where this is definitely my passion,

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but it's actually gaining momentum.

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Um, so it's, it's a funny space

to be in, but really exciting.

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And the whole idea of the spark came

about because I've, I've worked with

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children, young people for my, my whole

career since I was about 20, 21, probably.

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Yeah.

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Um.

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And when COVID hit, like I had some space

to actually reflect for the first time in

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a long time, which is, you know, useful.

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Um, and I started to think about what I

felt that children needed, particularly

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with the pandemic and the impact of that.

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But even before that, you know, I'd

spent so much of my time working

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in schools and seeing what's

happening to our young people.

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And it is, it's really worrying.

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Um, and I had this sort of

sense that I wanted to create

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something that was a bit of.

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Um, yeah, a bit of a movement

of coming together of people

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to support the next generation.

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And that, that's what

the spark is all about.

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So for me, it's about connecting

children and young people

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to that spark within them.

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So what is the thing that,

you know, lights them up?

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And in my experience of working with

children in schools, there was a

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definite sort of moment where I would

see almost that light go out in a lot

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of kids eyes, particularly that kind of.

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I was going to say, is there a

particular age that you saw that more?

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Okay.

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And I'm not, you know, it's

not every single child.

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It's, it's dependent on their

circumstances, of course, but you know,

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COVID exacerbated all of that as well.

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And so for me, it's like, how can we

connect kids to who they really are?

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But by doing that, we as adults.

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need to connect to who we really are.

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Yeah.

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So this idea of bringing together people

who are changemakers, who want to make a

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difference in the world, whether that's

about kids or not, for me it's about

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that legacy for the next generation.

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Whatever it is people are doing.

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Yeah.

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So that's where the idea for the

changemaker events came and the

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mutual connections that we've Um,

just bringing people together to

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say, we know things are not working.

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What can we do differently

to help the next generation?

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That's what it is in a nutshell.

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I absolutely love that.

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And we spoke about it before

and I was so interested to hear.

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Obviously I've got young girls, they're

about to turn four, um, got twins.

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And, you know, it's, it

does make me think that.

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What are we doing or what can

we do to really support, like

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you said, the next generation?

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And I think I've got a niece who is going

to be 10 soon and When I think about the

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bits that she missed out in in COVID as

well, you know, what impact does that

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really have on children in that space?

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And I'd love to know, because I haven't

been to a session yet, I'm hoping to

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come to the next one, what sort of

things are coming out for other people?

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I think it's a real mixture.

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I mean, it tends to attract, these

events attract a certain type of

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person, which is really interesting.

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It's by accident.

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And they are people who are generally

sort of positive, really motivated.

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They're not wanting to talk about loads

and loads of problems, but they're also

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really honest and open about the fact that

they've had experiences in their life.

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That have been difficult for them.

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Some people talk about the

traumas that they've been through.

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But how they're using

that as kind of fuel.

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And obviously that depends on the person.

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It's not always possible.

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And that does take time.

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But there's a real sense of people

using difficult experiences that

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they've had to help others in some way.

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Yeah.

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And so I think that's the main thing

that's sort of Coming out of this actually

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is it doesn't really matter what people

are focused on whether it's mental

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health or homelessness or the climate

or what have you What it is behind that

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I guess is the the kind of energy to

make a difference to help others To be

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that positive force in the world to be

authentic and to lead with integrity

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as well That's what I'm seeing a lot.

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So these events are not the

sort of You know, here's my

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business card, business network.

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Oh God, I couldn't

think of anything worse.

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Me too.

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Who enjoys those now?

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I guess somebody does, I

don't know, it's not me.

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And I never have, and I used

to attend a lot of things

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like that, sort of pre Covid.

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Yeah.

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And felt really uncomfortable, actually.

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I felt like that wasn't a space

for me, I wasn't valued, I

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didn't have anything to offer.

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Yeah.

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Nobody really wanted my business card.

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I didn't want to give it to anyone, you

know, it would just be really awkward.

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Yeah.

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So this is kind of like the antithesis

to that and, and just creating a space

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where people can make connections,

make connections, community.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I love that because if, if somebody,

or, you know, the people that come

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to the events are comfortable in

talking about, you know, previous

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traumas or things that have.

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to help them, then that's great.

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But if they're not, they can

just be there to listen as well.

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And to take things in and, you

know, and do things in their own

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way, do things in the background.

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Um, they don't have to be, I guess,

people that are going to come and

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shout out about what's helped them.

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No, that's a really good point.

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And, and, and there has to

be something for everybody.

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I was thinking actually this week that

it's a perfect balance for people who are

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really introverted and really extroverted.

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And I'm probably somewhere in the middle.

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Yeah.

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Because I think you can sit at the back,

you can listen to these amazing speakers,

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you can be inspired, you can have a

chat to the person next to you if you

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feel comfortable to, you don't have to.

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Or you can jump up, take to the floor,

talk about what you're doing, you

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know, network the heck out of it.

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There's space for all of that.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And I love that because I'm, I'm,

I always say I'm an introvert, but

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actually I think I'm, I'm, I'm kind

of in the middle because my, my

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listeners will know and I'm sure Nikki

will get to know this as, as, uh, our

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relationship blossoms, I'm going to say.

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But it's, if I am passionate about

something, oh my goodness, like,

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people will say, shut up pal, you

know, stop talking, but otherwise

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you'll find me at the back, like you

said, I'll be the one that just sits

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next to someone and just listens.

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But if I'm really passionate about

something and, and when we, um,

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first met, I think I mentioned to

you about my fertility journey and

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how, like, in education, in schools.

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There just wasn't anything, you

know, I didn't realize that body

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clocks tick as you get older and

you know, all the things that can

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happen to a, to a woman does happen.

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And now I'm fully menopausal

at 42, like all of these things

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that God, we go through so much.

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Never ending.

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Is it?

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And I haven't brought you on

to talk about that, but yeah, I

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think it's the education isn't it?

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That, that, that's

needed around and, and I.

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And I just love it.

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And I think it's a, it's a great space

for people to come in and see, you know,

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where can we be that change and why are

we waiting for other people to do that?

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Right, because I guess, you know, looking

at the state of the world, and I don't

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want to be negative, but it does feel like

things are a little bit Not great, is it?

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Come on.

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You can be as positive as we

want, but there's a lot going on.

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There's a lot going on.

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Yeah, we need to be realistic as well.

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But I think, I think you're right.

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I think we've all become a bit

disillusioned with that waiting

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for somebody in a position of power

and influence to make the change.

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And actually we're seeing more and more

that, you know, a lot of our leaders

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are really self serving and they don't

have You know, the, the best interests

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at heart of, of the general people.

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And so I think more and more people

feel that actually, you know, what

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am I going to do, how can I respond?

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And it can be in really small ways and I

think that's as well, I think that's an

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important point to mention that, you know,

we, we have these amazing changemakers

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who come and present at these events

and some of them been working in that

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space for years, which is fantastic.

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But it's also about, you know, just being

That on an everyday basis, like smiling at

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people in the street or saying hello or,

you know, in a really small way, right?

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But what a difference that makes.

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Absolutely, and that's the thing,

like I've got a dog and whenever

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I go out with him on a walk, if

I see somebody, I'm probably that

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annoying person that's like, Morning!

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Just because people just look down and

they're just looking down and rather

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looking up and looking around and

I just think well that even if that

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person doesn't need that hello or that

smile right now they might think about

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that later on and think oh well that

lady was nice for that dog you know

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she gave me a hello or a smile they

might tell somebody that's what that

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person did so yes the small things

isn't it um What are the small things

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do you think we could do as, as change

makers to, to make things bigger?

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I guess there's lots of

things that we can do.

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And I suppose it depends on what

your passion is and where your area

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of focus is, but I suppose it's,

it's, it is sounds a bit cliche,

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but it is about being that change.

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So, you know, for me, I've done a

lot of work with girls and young

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women over the years, a lot of work

on gender and gender stereotypes.

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So for me, I have to be really clear

about the language that I use when I refer

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to kind of the girls that I work with

or not kind of accidentally repeating

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those stereotypes of, you know, just

thinking about those kinds of things.

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But it could be about,

yeah, spreading compliments.

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It could be a bit about the way that I

speak about myself in company with others.

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Because actually that sets

a tone, particularly if you

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have children in your life.

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I think that is so important, isn't it?

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Um, and, and I think as well, and this

happens a lot in Wales, particularly,

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which is so lovely, but just being that

support for other business owners or

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social entrepreneurs or people who are

trying to do something good in the world.

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So like, Even just sharing something

on social media or telling somebody

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about something that someone's

doing, like that has a huge impact.

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Huge impact, doesn't it?

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Huge impact.

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And I love that.

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Yesterday was Valentine's Day.

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And for those who celebrate,

you know, happy Valentine's Day.

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And for those that don't,

that's fine as well.

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And I was like, you know what?

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I wanted to put a post up, um, just to

say to all the people that I connect with.

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Um, just to say how amazing I think

you are and I started tagging and I

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thought I can't tackle these people.

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It's not, it's not going to let me.

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: 00:15:22

So I thought, I thought there's so

many people that I could, you know,

320

: 00:15:26

tag their businesses in, tag them,

um, you know, their, their personal

321

: 00:15:30

profiles and just thinking how amazing

that the small things they're doing.

322

: 00:15:34

And I just thought I can't, I'll

be here all day and I don't even

323

: 00:15:36

know what the limit is of how many

people you can tag, so I just did

324

: 00:15:38

a generic, um, I love you all.

325

: 00:15:42

Blanket love, that's fine.

326

: 00:15:44

I love what you're doing.

327

: 00:15:46

Um, yeah, it's, it's, uh,

it's so, it's so interesting.

328

: 00:15:50

Um, so that's obviously

your passion project.

329

: 00:15:55

Yeah.

330

: 00:15:56

Um, and it's, it's, let's talk about

that a little bit, if you don't

331

: 00:15:59

mind, because lots of people have

passion projects and, you know.

332

: 00:16:04

Think oh, can I monetize it or do I

really want to monetize because you

333

: 00:16:09

can lose the love can't you start

to like over overwork it, I guess.

334

: 00:16:16

Yeah.

335

: 00:16:16

Are you in that place where you,

where you really want to keep it?

336

: 00:16:20

It's such a tricky balance.

337

: 00:16:22

I don't know.

338

: 00:16:23

I definitely don't feel like I'm doing

it that successfully right now because I

339

: 00:16:27

go through these phases where I'm super

excited about it and I love it and I can't

340

: 00:16:32

wait to sort of write that blog post or

share something or organize these events.

341

: 00:16:37

And then it's like, Oh gosh, I've spent

a lot of time this month doing this and

342

: 00:16:41

I haven't earned a penny from it because

it's not, you know, right now my, my job.

343

: 00:16:46

Um, and then that becomes

a bit demoralizing and then

344

: 00:16:50

the hate relationship begins.

345

: 00:16:53

Yeah, yeah.

346

: 00:16:54

So I don't know if I've

got an answer to that.

347

: 00:16:55

I guess.

348

: 00:16:57

I suppose for me, it's about striking

that balance between knowing that the

349

: 00:17:00

bills are being paid elsewhere so I can

carve off some time but making it my

350

: 00:17:05

sort of joy time, like I'm just going

to enjoy this, it doesn't matter if,

351

: 00:17:09

you know, dozens of people like the

post on Facebook or, you know, whatever

352

: 00:17:13

it might be, but keeping that in mind

because As soon as I start to kind of

353

: 00:17:19

tip into why aren't people retweeting

this or yeah, I need to know like, Oh

354

: 00:17:26

gosh, that just sucks the joy out of it.

355

: 00:17:28

So I think, you know, particularly

when something's in its infancy, if

356

: 00:17:32

you can strike the balance with having,

you know, income coming in elsewhere.

357

: 00:17:36

So it doesn't have to be about the money.

358

: 00:17:39

Yeah.

359

: 00:17:39

Also, I guess at the same time.

360

: 00:17:41

It's no bad thing to be earning money from

something you're passionate about, and

361

: 00:17:44

that's where I hope to get to at the end.

362

: 00:17:47

Yeah.

363

: 00:17:48

Because I think we have this

funny dynamic, particularly in

364

: 00:17:50

this country, about, you know,

your work and your earning is the

365

: 00:17:55

thing you need to slog away at.

366

: 00:17:56

Yeah, and the things that

you love are separate.

367

: 00:17:59

Which makes no sense.

368

: 00:17:59

It's not, is it?

369

: 00:18:00

I love that.

370

: 00:18:01

Yeah, thank you for being so honest on

that because like, you're right there.

371

: 00:18:04

It's, it's one of those things

that, you know, we do all this

372

: 00:18:09

amazing work, um, for no return.

373

: 00:18:14

I say no return, um, from a joy return.

374

: 00:18:17

Yes, but from a financial return.

375

: 00:18:19

And I think a lot of people struggle

with that because they think that because

376

: 00:18:24

they're doing something It's taken a lot

of their energy, a lot of their time.

377

: 00:18:28

They need to be, um,

remunerated from it, actually.

378

: 00:18:32

You don't, if it's, if it's a real joy.

379

: 00:18:35

And who's to say, if it's online,

you won't, but right now it's, you're

380

: 00:18:38

going to keep it as your passion

project and see where it goes.

381

: 00:18:40

Yeah.

382

: 00:18:41

That's the idea.

383

: 00:18:41

Okay.

384

: 00:18:42

We'll see.

385

: 00:18:42

We'll see.

386

: 00:18:43

We'll see.

387

: 00:18:44

Come back in a year or so.

388

: 00:18:45

Yeah, I'll be a millionaire.

389

: 00:18:46

And there's nothing wrong

with that though, is there?

390

: 00:18:50

There's nothing wrong with earning money.

391

: 00:18:53

From your energy and

time spent on something.

392

: 00:18:57

Yeah, for sure.

393

: 00:18:57

Just to caveat that . Okay.

394

: 00:18:59

Let's talk about, um, the girl lab.

395

: 00:19:02

Mm.

396

: 00:19:03

Yeah.

397

: 00:19:03

So this is where, this is where

the money comes from, right?

398

: 00:19:06

Well, some of it, yeah.

399

: 00:19:08

But again, you know, it's,

it's, it's my own business.

400

: 00:19:11

So it's me driving the kind of

marketing and, and making the

401

: 00:19:15

connections to bring in the work.

402

: 00:19:16

So.

403

: 00:19:17

Yeah, it's, it's also striking that,

that balance there as well sometimes.

404

: 00:19:22

But, um, yeah, the Girl Lab is

about supporting organizations

405

: 00:19:27

that are girl focused.

406

: 00:19:28

And when I started my work with girls

and young women, um, so I used to run

407

: 00:19:32

a social enterprise that was based

in South Wales, doing lots of work

408

: 00:19:35

with schools and the work with girls

just happened quite organically,

409

: 00:19:40

um, felt there was a need there.

410

: 00:19:42

And so I used to do a lot of direct

work, particularly with teenage girls.

411

: 00:19:46

Okay.

412

: 00:19:47

And now it's about kind of

moving up a stage really.

413

: 00:19:50

So how can I support organizations

that are girl focused?

414

: 00:19:52

And when I was doing that work,

there were very few, like it

415

: 00:19:55

was, it just wasn't a thing.

416

: 00:19:57

Yeah.

417

: 00:19:58

Um, people didn't really talk

about sort of gender equality in

418

: 00:20:01

terms of girls and young women.

419

: 00:20:03

No.

420

: 00:20:03

Um, even, even talking

about gender equality.

421

: 00:20:07

In itself, not a huge focus on that.

422

: 00:20:11

When did you start that, Nikki?

423

: 00:20:12

When did you start the Girl Lab?

424

: 00:20:13

So, the Girl Lab was founded in 2020.

425

: 00:20:16

So I quit my job mid pandemic,

which turns out, smart move.

426

: 00:20:21

Thought it was all done and over with

and, uh, didn't strike out on my own.

427

: 00:20:27

Actually, I've been very

lucky it's worked out.

428

: 00:20:29

So it was October 2020, um,

that I sort of launched it.

429

: 00:20:34

It takes many years though, doesn't it?

430

: 00:20:36

To kind of build some momentum.

431

: 00:20:37

Yeah.

432

: 00:20:38

Um, so yeah, so the focus is about

helping organizations that, that are

433

: 00:20:42

girl focused with strategy or training

or just various consultancy projects.

434

: 00:20:46

Yeah.

435

: 00:20:48

Uh, something that you just mentioned

about it takes time to, to build.

436

: 00:20:53

Um, what is it that you found

Challenging, where there's

437

: 00:20:58

opportunities to build in that space.

438

: 00:21:00

What are we now, two, well, three

years since you've launched that?

439

: 00:21:04

Yeah, probably a bit more.

440

: 00:21:07

Um, I guess.

441

: 00:21:09

Being honest now.

442

: 00:21:10

Yeah.

443

: 00:21:10

Let's be candid.

444

: 00:21:11

Oh gosh.

445

: 00:21:13

I suppose it's about connecting

with the people who care about

446

: 00:21:15

the things that you care about.

447

: 00:21:17

And it's.

448

: 00:21:19

It's hard because on the one hand you

think, well, surely everyone gets this,

449

: 00:21:24

surely everybody wants, you know, Yeah.

450

: 00:21:26

girls to have rights and, you know,

to live in a gender equal society

451

: 00:21:30

and it turns out not everybody does.

452

: 00:21:32

Not everybody does, no.

453

: 00:21:34

But even there's a spectrum

there, isn't there?

454

: 00:21:35

Because some people will totally

get with that and resonate with it

455

: 00:21:39

on a personal level, but it's not

relevant in a professional sense.

456

: 00:21:42

Yeah.

457

: 00:21:42

And I think that was the difficult

thing coming out of COVID as well as

458

: 00:21:45

obviously, you know, all children,

young people need the support.

459

: 00:21:49

And I think for a lot of

schools or organizations.

460

: 00:21:53

Working just with girls or putting

that focus on girls is challenging.

461

: 00:21:57

Yeah, yeah.

462

: 00:21:58

Um, and actually we're seeing a bigger

rise now in the need for support

463

: 00:22:02

for boys and young men, which is a

whole sort of separate issue, but.

464

: 00:22:05

Okay.

465

: 00:22:06

Yeah.

466

: 00:22:06

What are the, what are the sort of

main challenges that are coming out?

467

: 00:22:09

Can you, can you share any of those?

468

: 00:22:11

In terms of for girls?

469

: 00:22:12

Yeah.

470

: 00:22:13

Oh my gosh, there's so much.

471

: 00:22:14

I think still sort of the stereotypes

that probably, you know, our grandmothers

472

: 00:22:20

face and our mothers and we face,

they're very much alive and kicking,

473

: 00:22:24

like nothing much has moved on in

terms of the kind of perceptions about

474

: 00:22:28

gender roles, really, even though it

might look differently on the surface.

475

: 00:22:33

Because you think that everything's

portrayed on The media, what we see

476

: 00:22:38

that it is moving on, but I guess

you're living in that day to day and

477

: 00:22:43

you're not seeing much change at all.

478

: 00:22:45

I mean, if you look at social

media, for example, and that's the

479

: 00:22:47

world that young people inhabit,

and it'll look really differently

480

: 00:22:51

to my Instagram or what have you.

481

: 00:22:54

You know, the, the, the perception of.

482

: 00:22:56

What it should mean to be female and to

look female and to act a certain way.

483

: 00:23:03

Like it's very limited, really.

484

: 00:23:06

Um, you know, we've got huge

body image pressures on, on

485

: 00:23:10

young people, all young people,

particularly girls and young women.

486

: 00:23:13

Um, mental health issues.

487

: 00:23:16

are way worse for girls in many respects.

488

: 00:23:19

However, that can be to do with

under reporting from boys as well.

489

: 00:23:22

Yeah, sure.

490

: 00:23:23

Um, we're seeing a huge amount of kind

of violence between girls and from girls.

491

: 00:23:28

So that kind of aggressive, um, I guess,

you know, the kind of outpouring of

492

: 00:23:35

girls feelings actually is now coming

across in a really aggressive way, um,

493

: 00:23:40

which we didn't see as much of pre COVID.

494

: 00:23:43

It's not at a certain age

as well, Nikki, is it?

495

: 00:23:47

I think, you know, a lot of this for me,

I think a lot of it ramps up between, you

496

: 00:23:51

know, the jump from primary to secondary.

497

: 00:23:53

Yeah.

498

: 00:23:53

And, you know, kids go from being in

that really safe, nurturing environment

499

: 00:23:59

where they have a relationship

with teacher to this space where

500

: 00:24:02

they're unknown, they're not seen.

501

: 00:24:04

Yeah.

502

: 00:24:05

Yeah.

503

: 00:24:06

Oh God, it's really worrying me.

504

: 00:24:07

I just put my hands on my face and gone,

oh my goodness, I've got all this to come.

505

: 00:24:13

Oh gosh.

506

: 00:24:14

And there's lots of positives too.

507

: 00:24:17

You know, hopefully by then, Nikki,

you'd have changed the world.

508

: 00:24:21

You'll be running for Prime

Minister and I'm going to be

509

: 00:24:24

listening to you or something.

510

: 00:24:25

No pressure.

511

: 00:24:26

Oh my gosh, no pressure.

512

: 00:24:27

I wouldn't, I wouldn't

touch that role with a bus.

513

: 00:24:29

It's for my children, yeah.

514

: 00:24:31

Um, yeah, there's, there's, oh gosh,

it's still, still the, the whole

515

: 00:24:36

stigma of so much that unfortunately

we, we know about and funny enough,

516

: 00:24:41

I was just editing another podcast

before this, um, lovely Jo came on, um,

517

: 00:24:47

she'll be going out in the next couple

of weeks, but her podcast is about.

518

: 00:24:51

body image and body confidence

and how the stigma around shaming

519

: 00:24:56

and bodies is, has an impact.

520

: 00:25:00

Um, so it's all relative, you know,

and Jo is, I think she's a bit

521

: 00:25:03

older than me, I think she's in

her 40s and it still goes on now.

522

: 00:25:07

Massively.

523

: 00:25:08

Oh my goodness, you know, what can

we do to be these change makers?

524

: 00:25:11

What have we got to do?

525

: 00:25:13

Do you think, um, it's a lot

more Um, what's the right word?

526

: 00:25:21

I don't know.

527

: 00:25:21

Do you think social media, do you

think the way the world is now sort

528

: 00:25:25

of promotes a lot of this, a lot more?

529

: 00:25:30

In an answer, yes, because

it's just so immediate.

530

: 00:25:34

It's so in our kids faces.

531

: 00:25:37

It's constant, you know, and when, when

we were young, we could go home and get

532

: 00:25:42

away from whatever was happening, you

know, and you wouldn't have much exposure

533

: 00:25:46

to the outside world, which, you know,

that, that's, that's a negative and a

534

: 00:25:50

positive isn't it, because social media

also does loads of positive things.

535

: 00:25:56

But I think it, it just, the volume of it,

and even though, you know, our kids know

536

: 00:26:04

that these images, for example, are air,

um, airbrushed and filtered and altered,

537

: 00:26:10

like we know when we look at a photo.

538

: 00:26:12

Yeah.

539

: 00:26:13

But actually, you still feel the way that

you feel when you look at it, even though

540

: 00:26:17

you might know that it's not accurate.

541

: 00:26:19

Yeah, you're right there.

542

: 00:26:21

And I think the word then has

just really stuck with me.

543

: 00:26:23

It's the constant.

544

: 00:26:25

It's constant.

545

: 00:26:26

You, you know, you can choose to get

away from it, but actually the reality is

546

: 00:26:31

it's just there all the time, isn't it?

547

: 00:26:34

There's no getting away from it, and it

took me back then when you said about,

548

: 00:26:37

you know, when we were younger, we'd

just, um, you know, go home and get

549

: 00:26:40

away from the world, and yeah, you said

there's negatives, but God, I remember

550

: 00:26:43

just coming in from school, you know.

551

: 00:26:45

I would sit on the TV, watch Neighbours,

you know, watch Home and Away.

552

: 00:26:51

Blue Peter.

553

: 00:26:53

Yeah, you know.

554

: 00:26:55

And before that was, um, Fun House.

555

: 00:26:57

Like, that was one of my favourite

things, always wanted to go on Fun House.

556

: 00:27:01

You know, now these days, people just go

home and go straight on their mobiles.

557

: 00:27:04

And, you know, I'm not saying it's wrong.

558

: 00:27:07

I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

559

: 00:27:08

Just the difference.

560

: 00:27:09

But, but interestingly, you know, it

was still going on when we were younger.

561

: 00:27:14

Yeah, it's just now portrayed.

562

: 00:27:17

I think the word constant.

563

: 00:27:19

Yeah, there's so much more there.

564

: 00:27:22

And also, you know, this tech has

been, well, when it hasn't been

565

: 00:27:25

designed for kids, it never was.

566

: 00:27:27

But also it's been, it's

designed to be addictive, right?

567

: 00:27:29

That's why you get the endless scrolling.

568

: 00:27:31

You know, it used to be that

when you would scroll through.

569

: 00:27:34

Say Facebook, it would tell

you, you're all caught up now.

570

: 00:27:36

You've seen everything.

571

: 00:27:38

And now, do you remember that?

572

: 00:27:39

Right.

573

: 00:27:39

I haven't been on Facebook for

about a long time, but yeah.

574

: 00:27:43

But you know, that idea

of you've seen what's new.

575

: 00:27:48

Whereas now, you know, somebody

developed that algorithm where it

576

: 00:27:51

just keeps giving you more and more.

577

: 00:27:55

And so that's really,

that's just stuck with me.

578

: 00:27:57

Yeah.

579

: 00:27:57

It's like you've caught up.

580

: 00:27:58

Okay, great.

581

: 00:27:59

I'll put the phone down.

582

: 00:27:59

There's nothing else to see.

583

: 00:28:00

Nothing else to see here.

584

: 00:28:02

Wow.

585

: 00:28:03

Okay.

586

: 00:28:04

Gee whiz, isn't it?

587

: 00:28:05

And it's, it's, like you said,

though, it's not a bad thing.

588

: 00:28:08

And I think it can be amazing for

businesses, for people, for, you

589

: 00:28:13

know, social, you know, but actually

there's, there's still so much to do.

590

: 00:28:18

Oh my goodness.

591

: 00:28:19

I could feel like I could talk

to you for, Weeks on this.

592

: 00:28:22

Oh my goodness.

593

: 00:28:23

Right.

594

: 00:28:23

So let's talk a bit about, um,

how you look after you, Nikki.

595

: 00:28:30

So this is what I talk about with my,

my guests, because you've got this

596

: 00:28:35

passion project, The Spark, you've

got The Girl Lab, you've got loads

597

: 00:28:39

of other things going on as well.

598

: 00:28:41

How do you look after you in all of this?

599

: 00:28:44

I mean, I, gosh, I, I have to be honest.

600

: 00:28:46

I, I do struggle with this because

I work for myself, obviously.

601

: 00:28:51

I work from home.

602

: 00:28:52

Yeah.

603

: 00:28:53

It's, it's raining a lot.

604

: 00:28:56

And we don't like the rain.

605

: 00:28:57

We don't like the rain.

606

: 00:28:58

So it's, it is very easy to just.

607

: 00:29:02

There's always something on that to

do list, isn't there, and just like,

608

: 00:29:05

you know, before you know it, the room

is dark, you've missed your window of

609

: 00:29:10

actually going outside that this day.

610

: 00:29:13

And I guess because now I don't, you know,

I used to work for an organization where

611

: 00:29:17

I had colleagues, you go to the office

every day and I don't have that anymore.

612

: 00:29:23

So I have to be quite strict with myself

to say, switch off now, go for a walk.

613

: 00:29:29

You know, do something else or scheduling.

614

: 00:29:32

coffee meetings with people.

615

: 00:29:34

Yeah.

616

: 00:29:34

And, and actually, you know, it's,

it's finding people who are willing

617

: 00:29:37

to do that because everybody's so busy

that they'll just say, Oh, for sure.

618

: 00:29:41

Like we'll just have a zoom meeting.

619

: 00:29:43

It's like, please meet me in real life.

620

: 00:29:45

Yeah.

621

: 00:29:45

I'm really surprised you just said

that because I think most people,

622

: 00:29:48

especially self employed people

are like, yeah, yeah, that's great.

623

: 00:29:51

Let's go.

624

: 00:29:51

Let's go.

625

: 00:29:52

Let's go have a coffee.

626

: 00:29:55

People who are self employed

maybe are more willing.

627

: 00:29:57

You're asking the wrong people.

628

: 00:29:58

Yeah, yeah.

629

: 00:29:58

I don't think I am.

630

: 00:29:59

Don't give it an option to say, let's

have a Zoom, you know, I'm going

631

: 00:30:04

to be at this place at this time.

632

: 00:30:06

Do you want to come and meet me there?

633

: 00:30:07

Yeah.

634

: 00:30:08

Funnily enough though, before, um,

I started recording this, a Lazy

635

: 00:30:12

Book Day, I just wanted to meet

you, I've listened to some of your

636

: 00:30:18

podcasts, I follow you on LinkedIn.

637

: 00:30:20

I just wanted to have a chat and

have a cup of coffee with you.

638

: 00:30:22

And I was like, all right, yeah,

well, you know, okay, why not?

639

: 00:30:27

We had a really nice chat.

640

: 00:30:28

There was no sales involved.

641

: 00:30:29

She was up in Manchester.

642

: 00:30:32

So it's not as if we could have

just popped to have a coffee.

643

: 00:30:34

And that was actually just really nice.

644

: 00:30:37

So if you can't physically

get outside, yeah, I recommend

645

: 00:30:40

just booking in a A coffee.

646

: 00:30:42

You're so right.

647

: 00:30:43

Because otherwise it's

really isolating, isn't it?

648

: 00:30:46

And you have to, like, you've got to

force yourself because nobody else

649

: 00:30:49

is going to say, you know, put the

laptop away, go and take some time out.

650

: 00:30:54

So, yeah, I find that quite

difficult, if I'm honest.

651

: 00:30:59

Do you think, like, when you were

working for an organization as well,

652

: 00:31:04

were you very strict or not strict,

but you had times you had to work in?

653

: 00:31:09

So, say you were in a nine to five job.

654

: 00:31:11

Do you stick, try and stick to that now?

655

: 00:31:14

I, I, I'm realizing that I'm my own worst

enemy because actually, I mean, that,

656

: 00:31:19

that, so that, my last sort of paid role,

and I haven't done many over the years

657

: 00:31:23

because I realize I'm a bit unemployable

because I'm used to working for myself.

658

: 00:31:27

So it's, it's quite a

different dynamic, isn't it?

659

: 00:31:30

But, um, yeah, obviously I had a nine

to five, but it would end up being

660

: 00:31:35

more like eight to late or something.

661

: 00:31:38

I think it's, it's tricky, isn't it?

662

: 00:31:40

When you're passionate about something

and you want to give your all to

663

: 00:31:43

it, then it's quite easy to do that.

664

: 00:31:45

And the people who give energy to

something are the ones that get, you

665

: 00:31:49

know, get more out of it, but also get

more put onto their plate sometimes.

666

: 00:31:53

Um, but actually, you know, that part

of the reason why I had to quit that job

667

: 00:31:58

is because I was close to just falling

into a heap because it was too much.

668

: 00:32:03

Yeah.

669

: 00:32:04

Yeah.

670

: 00:32:04

Comes too much.

671

: 00:32:05

Yeah.

672

: 00:32:06

And this is part of the

podcast name, isn't it?

673

: 00:32:08

It's avoiding that, avoiding that

burnout and it's so easy to do.

674

: 00:32:11

Yeah.

675

: 00:32:12

Um, yeah.

676

: 00:32:13

And I would just say like a top tip

for me is even though it's bloody

677

: 00:32:16

raining outside and it is miserable.

678

: 00:32:19

Just put the laptop down, go

outside, change your environment.

679

: 00:32:23

We said my meetings are at coffee.

680

: 00:32:24

So important, yeah.

681

: 00:32:25

Just, just change that

environment if you can.

682

: 00:32:27

Um, I really like working in coffee shops.

683

: 00:32:30

I know it depends on what

you're doing as well.

684

: 00:32:32

Depends on what you're working on.

685

: 00:32:33

But I actually quite like just to have

that kind of hustle and bustle around me.

686

: 00:32:39

So it feels like I'm in, I'm in there

like hustle and bustle conversations,

687

: 00:32:43

but I'm not, I'm still on my own.

688

: 00:32:44

But actually you end up having a

conversation with the person next to you

689

: 00:32:47

sometimes or a little chat with somebody.

690

: 00:32:49

It's that human contact, isn't it?

691

: 00:32:51

It is.

692

: 00:32:51

It's so important.

693

: 00:32:53

And I think, yeah, COVID

probably showed us that.

694

: 00:32:56

in a really quick way.

695

: 00:32:58

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

696

: 00:32:59

How important that was.

697

: 00:33:01

Absolutely.

698

: 00:33:02

Okay, so what direction are you heading

in, Nikki, with, with everything you do?

699

: 00:33:08

Well, it feels like a bit of a

squiggly line, to be honest, because,

700

: 00:33:12

and, and actually, Maybe I'm okay

with that because I used to think

701

: 00:33:15

it was a very sort of straight

vertical line, or I'm gonna do this.

702

: 00:33:19

Yeah.

703

: 00:33:19

Do my five year plan and then Yeah.

704

: 00:33:21

And then, you know, life does it matter?

705

: 00:33:23

Matter.

706

: 00:33:24

Yeah.

707

: 00:33:24

Yeah.

708

: 00:33:25

Um, so I'm trying to learn to get,

to get used to the ups and downs and

709

: 00:33:31

the, the kind of squiggly line of it.

710

: 00:33:33

Yeah.

711

: 00:33:33

Um, and to be led more

by my joy and what I.

712

: 00:33:39

I love to do.

713

: 00:33:40

I think that is so important, isn't it?

714

: 00:33:42

Because we only get so

long on this planet.

715

: 00:33:44

Why spend so much time

doing things we hate?

716

: 00:33:49

It's not always possible, but yeah,

where I can find the pockets of it.

717

: 00:33:53

Yeah, absolutely.

718

: 00:33:54

There's a really good

friend of mine, Amy Bateman.

719

: 00:33:56

She's been on the podcast for

series and one of her things is.

720

: 00:34:00

Um, I'm going to get it wrong now,

she's going to kill me, but it's, it's

721

: 00:34:03

something along the lines of why would

you stay in a job that you absolutely

722

: 00:34:06

hate, life is, life's too short, or

something like that, it's much better.

723

: 00:34:12

But yeah.

724

: 00:34:12

Get the gist.

725

: 00:34:13

Get the gist.

726

: 00:34:14

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

727

: 00:34:16

Okay, so, um.

728

: 00:34:19

I was going to ask you a question.

729

: 00:34:20

I've gone off.

730

: 00:34:21

Yeah, because we, we were talking about,

um, one of the reasons that our mutual

731

: 00:34:25

connection connected us was because

he was thinking about doing a podcast.

732

: 00:34:29

And, um, I said, well, yeah, I'll

tell you it's, it's brilliant.

733

: 00:34:34

And this is the bit I absolutely love

is the, the chats and, um, but I do

734

: 00:34:39

all the editing and everything myself.

735

: 00:34:41

Um, I just, it's hard.

736

: 00:34:46

It's really hard, and it's like,

this is kind of my passion project

737

: 00:34:51

as well, and I, you know, I don't,

I think I've got a little bit of

738

: 00:34:54

business from it, but nothing massive,

because I'm, it's something I love

739

: 00:34:57

doing, um, but I've really got to be

mindful of, oh my goodness, all the,

740

: 00:35:01

all the extras that come with it, um.

741

: 00:35:04

And just tell the audience where you've

been this weekend, or last weekend.

742

: 00:35:08

Oh gosh, well I booked, I booked

myself onto a course to learn how

743

: 00:35:14

to create podcasts in London, um,

so I booked it just after Christmas.

744

: 00:35:18

You know when you've got that New

Year kind of, Yeah, what can I do?

745

: 00:35:21

It's January, I need some Uh, resolution.

746

: 00:35:23

Yeah.

747

: 00:35:24

How can we going to do?

748

: 00:35:25

So I booked myself onto this

course and had a lovely day out,

749

: 00:35:28

like the lunch was excellent.

750

: 00:35:29

Um, turns out making

podcasts is quite technical.

751

: 00:35:33

It can be.

752

: 00:35:34

And there's quite a lot of work involved.

753

: 00:35:36

It can be.

754

: 00:35:36

So, you know.

755

: 00:35:37

Watch, watch this space.

756

: 00:35:38

Watch this space.

757

: 00:35:39

It's BBC, to be honest.

758

: 00:35:40

Hilarious, hilarious.

759

: 00:35:43

I did say, well, if nothing

else, you had a lovely time.

760

: 00:35:46

Nice lunch and lunch.

761

: 00:35:47

Yeah, yeah.

762

: 00:35:48

Okay, what is, couple

Episode 43

21st Mar 2024

Igniting the spark again with Girl Lab Changemakers

Transcript

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About the Podcast

About your host

Helen Corsi-Cadmore